Another good use can be to protect a large unit of Ironsworn. Problem is, there is such as thing as making a unit too powerful and making the charge too costly for your opponent. If you have a large unit of Ironsworn, probably with lammasus beard and probably a Sorc with Daemonology and then two detachments and the whole thing is a giant 1000pts death trap for your opponent and he will be torn to shreds when he charges he… will just not do it! It’s a very similar problem as the deathstar Hammerer-unit with all the runes plus a king and runesmith for dwarfs. Why would anyone do you the favour and charge from the front? All of these Uber-units require a situation where you can absolutely dictate every move your opponent does. And that’s not likely. And tbh - could make a dull game 
Forgot we have GW as an option!
My problem with detachments is that Cav can just charge them. If I flee they re-direct and I get no stand&Shoot. Stubborn/shield wall can be an answer to that though… We FBiGO and then flank with main regiment. If those 8ish dwarfs (1/2 of the original unit) will not die to a charge.
Blunderbusses sounds great but a 5-6 model wide line is not going to do much anyway. 10-12 shots. +1CR for flank might change the battle especially with S6 attacks.
Well, don’t flee then 
And it’s not even FBIGO, they’re only giving ground 2“ with Shieldwall - only a single dwarf has to survive. And even if the heavy cav kills them down to the last model, they’ve wasted their First Charge they probably had now on your small detachment and not your much more important regimental unit.
Yes, GW are great for a counter charge - if your opponent does you the favour to charge your regimental unit while your detachment is unengaged and in charge distance. And the counter-charge can still fail! Supporting fire at least always works as long as detachment is unengaged.
The appealing prospect of Fireglaives with shields is the total flexibility. But of course it’s the classic jack of all trades master of none problem. That’s maybe 7 or so shots hitting on 5s? Probably not going to do much. I’d rather have 7xD3 shots hitting on 4s, even if only S3.
Wiped out the traitor dwarfs 17-3* today. It was an excruciatingly long battle of 5½ hours, but we got there in the end.
The Wyvern proved immensely tanky as expected. Oh my.
I will have a game against dwarfs this weekend at 1750. I have a list I already tested with Prophet on a Carpet, BOoW 354 points, 2 Khans, one on wolf, 5 BO, 16 IG with blunderbusses and 39 cutthroats. 2 balista, ID and 5 wolves.
What I am looking for are improvements to the list. I am aware I can not get all the toys I would in a 2k list with more hobgoblins, lammasu/taurus and more BO but I think I could move things around to get more efficiency out of that list.
If I could find some points for Razor Banner or few extra Black Orcs… Any ideas?
Seems legit. Your bolters won’t have many targets, however, what with the enemy being all infantry and likely fairly wide in frontage. If you put them on the far flanks, you may be lucky to get some cheeky flank shots, though.
Bolt throwers are wierd. They force a reaction but can sometimes do little damage.
I have used this list last tournament and it was very solid. I just wonder what could I mąkę better.
Hi all,
Random rules question: can we take a Black Orc BSB? Just as we take O&G magical items, if their army book says one BO can be upgraded to BSB can we follow this too? I was thinking about a “Death Star” unit of either blunderbusses or ironsworn with 2 BSBs in them (Big Red Flag plus Lammasus Beard would be very powerful!)
On old world army builder you cant.
Id have loved poisoned archer hobbos but it cant be done as far as i know
I think the answer is, that the BSB upgrade is now tied to the army list, and not the unit entry. Only a seneschal can act as our BSB, good however a black orc battle standard bearer, in a chaos dwarf army, toting a forest goblin banner, might be 
The notion of two battle standard bearers is fun, but absurd
Fair enough! Although the rule book does allude to the possibility:
If, by some unusual circumstance, there are two Battle Standards on the same side in the combat, you can only count the bonus for one.
Maybe some future tournament organizers may be willing to try an exotic rule interpretation : p !
I think they’re referring to games where two players team up. Can an allied contingent include a BSB, I wonder…?
To me it’s pretty straightforward. What we take from the O&G army list is just the unit entries for blorcs and blorc bosses.
The Battle Standard Bearer upgrade is part of the army list, not the character, so a Black Orc Boss in a Chaos Dwarf army cannot be the BSB. There is no limitation on BSBs in allied forces, so any allied force can include a BSB. CDs can only ally with Warriors of Chaos though, so no greenskin BSB is possible in a CD army unless you allow for house rules.
Yep, this! No Black Orc BSB for a chaos dwarf grand army.
In the Armies of Infamy contained in the Dwarf Arcane Journal we have options for Runesmith BSB and Engineer BSB, which is only possible because the respective Army Composition Lists now dictate which models can be upgraded to BSB, not the individual unit entries. (It doesn’t say anywhere in the Infernal Senechal unit entry that he can get the BSB upgrade either, for example)
Richi from Dawi after Dark talking to the currently top ranked Chaos Dwarf player (or top ranked at LGT? Whatever), Tom Carly. Relevant part is about 30min.
Much if not all of the things we’re discussing here all the time. Nice!
This is an older version of his list (he’s talking about the current one in the video)
I did listen to this one yesterday and it was fun to hear some nice ideas. Sadly we all agree that K’daii and Bull centaurs are not even in tye coverstation 
I would love to hear more insight about things like usage of Hellshards, Lammasu, blunderbusses too.
Agree that it just doesn’t look good for K’Daai, but I wouldn’t rule out Bulls yet And anyway I think it became clear that “the Meta” is an ever-shifting thing. Things that are all the rage now are maybe relegated to the back rows in a few months. Tom used to have Wolf Riders in the list and still is a fan apparently, still he now switched to war machines. this may change again. And I also liked the part about the dangers of skewering a list too much into one direction. People see Chaos Dwarfs and now expect a T7 Taurus and an Iron Daemon? Sike, here’s my Lammasu with MR(3) and Immune to Monster Slayer and here are my damn K’Daai, the last unit you were expecting but somehow I found a way to make them work.
True!
Cool thing is that my local league is using different that TOP armies so I have to adjust my lists too! I have used wolves for a long time but I am tempted with 2 monsters in a below 2000 and I will test them. This is after all also a cool experience to use different lists.
I do like the idea of using 2 DSRs wth lvl1 engineer. 5" template is interesting.
Ok. Tweaked my 1750 list more and more and removed balista and wolved and came up with this:
++ Characters [875 pts] ++
Sorcerer-Prophet [475 pts]
(Darkforged weapon, Heavy armour, Level 4 Wizard, General, Bale Taurus, Mantle of Stone, Talisman of Protection, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Daemonology)
Black Orc Warboss [349 pts]
(Great weapon, Full plate armour, Wyvern, Trollhide Trousers, Effigy Of Mork, Charmed Shield)
Hobgoblin Khan [51 pts]
(Hand weapon, Throwing weapons, Great weapon, Shortbow (instead Throwing weapons), On foot)
++ Core Units [599 pts] ++
16 Black Orc Mob [282 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, Stubborn, Veteran, 8x Shields, 16x Great weapon, Boss, Standard bearer, Musician)
10 Infernal Guard [150 pts]
(Fireglaives, Heavy armour)
10 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shortbow)
40 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [137 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shortbow, Boss (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
++ Special Units [275 pts] ++
Iron Daemon [275 pts]
(Steam Cannonade, Hand weapons)
Created with “Old World Builder”
[https://old-world-builder.com]
Decided I want to try 2 flyers one wyvern and a chorfy one too. This changed the list focus so I have removed wolf riders (I have enough speed) and decided to take both a small hobgoblin unit (chaff) and bigger one which is great vs elite killer units.
I still wonder is If should go with 10 fireglaives OR 10 blunderbusses with drilled. I can do that by dropping one black orc (to 15). I like the idea of a fireglaive unit BUT I feel there might be ZERO impact on the game itself with just few shots from glaives.
I like this. I’m not sure if both veteran and stubborn is needed on blorcs. They’re immune to panic, and can tank a break test when stubborn. What else is there? Terror? If they get charged by something with terror, they’re likely done for anyway. I’d probably only take stubborn.
I’ve considered the Wyvern+bale Taurus as well. I’ll for sure try it out, but I think the Lamassu fulfills a different role than the wyvern, whereas bull and wyvern kind of have the same strengths and weaknesses.
IG, in my opinion, should be kept with sword and board and fulfill the role they’re good at - anvilin’. The meager amount of shots or the tiny uptick in killyness, at the cost of survivability, is not worth it, imo. A unit of 30 with blunderbusses is another matter.
Where is your mandatory ruby ring? 