[TOW] Let's get competitive

Chaos Dwarf Discussion Army List and Gaming Discussion
363

No Ruby ring! I have used 100% hero points avaliable!

True. I could gry those 16 points back from veteran. I could even Field another cutthroat unit! With those or a war banner…

I have no axe and shield Dwarfs painted yet. But this would save me a other 30 points… Hmm…

Key question is what to with those points. There are 2 options. Hellbound for ID or another 10 hobgoblinów hobgoblins. They can not chaff big unit as there is a rósł of a panic so Hellbound or extra orcs… Drilled on glaives… Not a nad option either.

1 Like
364

No, they are not immune to panic. They don’t suffer panic caused by units without the rule, but they still have to test when suffering 25% casualties, for example. Or when hit by any of the other panic-causing things. And Veteran also applies to things like Vampire Screams. Always pay for veteran, always! Otherwise you can be sure that you will fail exactly that one LD test in the game you really really do not want to.

(and just because you mentioned stubborn and break test: Veteran does not allow re-rolls of break tests anyway. Also stubborn only works once per game for the first break test they have to take. Veteran works the whole game.)

2 Likes
365

For me that’s just a general problem with treating the IG only as a 10-model tax unit (although I completely understand why to do it). What to do with it? Just giving them shields to be an anvil is good, but I’d say it’s likely they won’t see combat then. Your opponent knows that they have stubborn and shieldwall and the unit is only worth 120pts. Why would he do you the favour and charge it (from the front, where Shieldwall triggers)? And it is too slow to really force your opponent. Adding Blunderbusses to the unit can help, as at least now they have some offensive potential. With the usual drawbacks that Blunderbusses have. What’s the overall battle plan for the army? Do 10 Blunderbusses really workwell with it? Will they matter? Fireglaives offer the longest threat range, and even that is only 18". But I could see them staying back with the war machines or holding a flank. 10 Fireglaives in a line are still 10 handgun shots and if they’re charged, a few S5 hits. And they still have stubborn to only FBIGO.

1 Like
366

Well… It as always - depends. This army is split in halp. Flyers get into CC with what is key targets. The rest deals with what is not in CC with Sneaky&Horny. You can not avoid 40 shots a turn from hobgoblins (even 50) so blunderbussess could make some damage.

On the other hand fireglaive units can stay behind hobgoblin line and counter-charge for BO.

I think I go for glaives just for sake of trying painted models. I think 18" shot is better than no shots at all.

1 Like
367

Thanks for Your help. I think this is my final version for game 1.

++ Characters [875 pts] ++
Sorcerer-Prophet [475 pts]
(Darkforged weapon, Heavy armour, Level 4 Wizard, General, Bale Taurus, Mantle of Stone, Talisman of Protection, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Daemonology)

Black Orc Warboss [349 pts]
(Great weapon, Full plate armour, Wyvern, Trollhide Trousers, Effigy Of Mork, Charmed Shield)

Hobgoblin Khan [51 pts]
(Hand weapon, Throwing weapons, Great weapon, Shortbow (instead Throwing weapons), On foot)

++ Core Units [599 pts] ++
15 Black Orc Mob [266 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, Stubborn, Veteran, 8x Shields, 15x Great weapon, Boss, Standard bearer, Musician)

10 Infernal Guard [160 pts]
(Fireglaives, Heavy armour, Drilled (0-1 per 1000 points))

10 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shortbow)

42 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [143 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shortbow, Boss (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)

++ Special Units [275 pts] ++
Iron Daemon [275 pts]
(Steam Cannonade, Hand weapons)

Created with “Old World Builder”

[https://old-world-builder.com]

1 Like
368

I mean it looks good, no question!

But still… so the reason for the Khan is to give that large unit LD10 and some punch in close combat I guess? That’s also why there is a full command unit, right?

IDK, for me it’s wasted potential. That unit is going to struggle in any meaningful combat no matter what. I would skip Musician and Standard and give the Khan a Giant Wolf (also Throwing Weapons instead of the Shortbow), I think he’s worth more as a lone harasser, something which the army lacks. And with the Boss the big Hobgoblin unit still had LD8 at least.

1 Like
369

Oh my god, thanks for that. Now that I read the rule again, that was definitely a lapse in reading comprehension on my part :see_no_evil: Honestly my understanding of the rule also struck me as odd, like, why are they so utterly badass, when even elite units of the dwarfs and elves need to roll for panic?

I (luckily) haven’t ever come up against a screamer list, so I haven’t witnessed that particular horror and missed veteran.

I tend to bring 15-17 of them, drilled, and then fling them 36" up the table with steed of shadows. That way they see action for sure :grin:

2 Likes
370

Yeah me neither, but upon learning of its existence I appreciated the wording for Veteran as applying to any failed LD test. And who knows what other horrors await us in future Arcane Journals or the next Metas.

haha, fair enough :slight_smile: I was specifically talking about the 10-man tax units.

2 Likes
371

Imo, if you have a tax unit, you might as well make it a useful part of your game plan :man_shrugging: Wood Elf players with 5 measly glade guard sitting behind a hill all game, ugh :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

2 Likes
372

There is ONE Khan. To go into hobgoblins. I had no points (point cap on Heroes) to give him ring. Or even a Wolf. I like his throwing weapons when he is a loner on a Wolf. Even in cutthroats. 2 shots with S4 ! After 18" move.

I do have 0/875 hero points left so no ring and Wolf… I could give him Wolf if i drop Mantle od Stone to free points.

1 Like
373

Ah, didn’t consider points costs :+1:

1 Like
374

Another argument for bringing the Lamassu?

1 Like
375

Yes…good one…still lamassu is not really a combat oriented. But a good point to replace Bale with lamassu and get Khan…

Many my list od opponents will help.

2x WoC
1x bretonia
1x empire
1x Wood Elves
2x Dwarfs
2x Khemri
1x greenskins
1x lizardmen.

1 Like
376

I’ve only had one game against the Screamer list, but I found that the Curse of Hashut spell is an excellent counter to both the Banshees and the Mortis Engine. I managed to kill both Banshees before they could start wreaking havoc.

The 2,000-point list was essentially:

  • Two Mortis Engines
  • Two Banshees
  • Lots and Lots of zombies
  • One Terrorgheist

We didn’t manage to finish the game, and while I was leading at the time, I’m not entirely convinced I would have held onto the lead.

The list has so many ways to lower your leadership, and the fact that they can scream in combat really needs to be addressed in an FAQ.

Note, I was running two great Taurus’.

4 Likes
377

What was Your list?

I really like the idea of using Hashut spells lore to kill banshees. Question is can banshee join units?

3 Likes
378

@William gave me an idea. What is I replace a Bale Taurus with Great Taurus? I loose +1T (still have Mantle so T6) and +1 on my stomps BUT I get enough points to give Khan a ring and a wolf. He could them be either in a Cutthroat unit or act on his own depending what list I will play against…

I will not play Beastmen anyways in our league so T7 is not key. It is nice but … You know… Points.

3 Likes
379

Ethereal characters can’t join non-ethereal units, but as I understand it, they can walk alongside the unit and charge in separately at the same time. To target them, you need magical attacks. With the Curse of Hashut, you don’t have to target the closest unit, which gives you more flexibility in dealing with them.

3 Likes
380

That is the power of this spell. You can target units protected by infantry blocks and proximity rule.

2 Likes
381

The list:

2,000 points double Great Taurus

Characters (996 pts)

  • Sorcerer-Prophet (450 pts)
    • Darkforged weapon, Heavy armour, Level 4 Wizard, General, Great Taurus, Black Hammer of Hashut, Talisman of Protection, Charmed Shield, Daemonology
  • Sorcerer-Prophet (450 pts)
    • Darkforged weapon, Heavy armour, Level 4 Wizard, Great Taurus, Talisman of Protection, Black Hammer of Hashut, Charmed Shield, Daemonology
  • Hobgoblin Khan (49 pts)
    • Hand weapon, Throwing weapons, Shield, Shortbow (instead of Throwing weapons), On foot
  • Hobgoblin Khan (47 pts)
    • Hand weapon, Throwing weapons, Shortbow (instead of Throwing weapons), On foot

Core Units (514 pts)

  • 10 Infernal Guard (150 pts)
    • Fireglaives, Heavy armour
  • 59 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (182 pts)
    • Hand weapons, Shortbows, Standard bearer
  • 59 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (182 pts)
    • Hand weapons, Shortbows, Standard bearer

Special Units (490 pts)

  • Iron Daemon (310 pts)
    • Steam Cannonade, Hand weapons, Hellbound
  • 4 Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower (180 pts)
    • Bolt thrower, Hand weapons, Light armour
1 Like
382

You can’t have that loadout twice, neither the Black Hammer nor the Talisman of Protection are extremely common items and can therefore be only once in the army.