I didnt realise lvl 2 sorcerers could be on taurai or tauruses. Had to check the army book to be sure. How did i miss this! Thought it was lamassu only
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They can but not on Bale. Still Great is great in smaller games.
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Thank you both. Maybe I just had bad roles or need to tweak my playing style but the Bretonians on eagles tore mine up. Still less than half a dozen games under my belt.
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One major bummer is that I don’t think the lamma’s miasma affects the Bretonnian vows or whatever they are? Because monster slayer is scary.
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Well yes, it only affects magic weapons and not special rules. But that’s still a major advantage at a very reasonable price! Kind of a reverse ethereal. And in the current Green Knight Meta, chances are good you’ll face a lot of magic weapons.
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Agreed and good point.
Speaking of the green knight, makes me appreciate our dark-forged weapons. I recently reread the ensorcelled weapon rule and realized I had been overlooking it also confers AP -1, not bad.
Last game I played they really pulled their weight. Brought three and the mounted sorcerer-prophet and seneschal both rolled hatred to great affect while my lvl2 rolled the +1 to cast which came up clutch multiple times.
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Darkforged / Ensorcelled is a really good combo for everyone who can take it (including the Taur’ruk). It’s really cheap for 10pts but can have quite good effects.
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what model do you use for the warboss on wyvern?
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I am so glad Tom posted his list as it helped me understand the pieces of the character puzzle I was missing with the army. I am curious about using Deathshriekers vs. Dreadquakes in a swiftstride/fast moving meta though! Secondly, wondering how the maths work out with a Deathshrieker compared to three bolt throwers.
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Not an easy choice! The Dreadquake combines the Deathshrieker’s large template from the Incendiary rockets with the strength/wounds from the demolition rockets, that’s def a plus. It’s also tougher and that anti-swiftstride mechanic is it’s unique selling point. Against armies like Bretonnia that is a very strong case for the Dreadquake. The Slow Reload is of course a major drawback, as you’re probably only have a few rounds of shooting to begin with. And it costs 50% more, so if you have enough points, 2 Deathshriekers probably give you better output.
The math for scatter/artillery is not easy, but statistically 1 of the 3 Bolt Throwers will hit each turn. That’s def better than a Deathshrieker! Then again the Deathshrieker can fire indirectly, it’s also tougher and can causes panic tests, plus of course the chance to deal D6 damage, so a lot of consideration. A big difference obviously is how many model can you actually hit. When you play some MSU army or linehammer zaelot, a Bolt Thrower will only hit one model, whereas a direct hit with the 5" blast template form the Deathshrieker will maybe hit the whole unit. Check this thread for a more detailed analysis on how effective templates can be. Still, I think point for point a 45pts Bolt Thrower is the better deal than a Deathshrieker.
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Something I thought of last night is that the bolt throwers don’t need to be babysat by an engineer either. I don’t fully understand the points cost in the GT list for the added sorcerer (seems required specifically for the Deathshriekers) compared to dropping him altogether and cutting the 2nd arty. I know fireball/ring is good and all but it’s not absurdly reliable
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Yes, Bolt Throwers don’t benefit at all from an Engineer. But if you go for Deathshriekers or Dreadquakes he’s quite useful or needed even. And of course he offers more than just the re-roll, he’ll bring his own spells and a second dispel bubble.
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I guess what I’m asking: is it truly worth spending 115 pts for a level 1 caster with 1 spell + a ruby ring instead of something else and swapping the second deathshrieker for some bolt throwers. That’s a modest investment to me and I’m curious if the return is worth it or necessary.
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What I came up with real quick based on Tom’s list (only other real change on other selections was downgrading the Taurus just to try it out)
- removed sorcerer
- removed a single hobgoblin cutthroat
- removed armour of meteoric
- +1 mounted goblin Khan
- +1 hobgoblin wolf riders squad
===
Chaos Dwarfs [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Chaos Dwarfs
++ Characters [828 pts] ++
Sorcerer-Prophet [415 pts]
- Darkforged weapon
- Heavy armour
- Level 4 Wizard
- Great Taurus
- Talisman of Protection
- Mantle of Stone
- Daemonology
Black Orc Warboss [354 pts]
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- General
- Wyvern
- Trollhide Trousers
- Effigy Of Mork
- Enchanted Shield
Hobgoblin Khan [59 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Throwing weapons
- Great weapon
- Giant Wolf
++ Core Units [503 pts] ++
10 Infernal Guard [160 pts]
- Fireglaives
- Heavy armour
- Shield
11 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [33 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shortbows
12 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [36 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shortbows
15 Black Orc Mob [274 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Veteran
- 12x Shields
- 7x Great weapon
- Boss
- Standard bearer [Da Angry Ladz Flag]
- Musician
++ Special Units [565 pts] ++
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [120 pts]
- Demolition Rockets
- Infernal Incendiaries
- Hand weapons
- Heavy armour
Iron Daemon [310 pts]
- Steam Cannonade
- Hand weapons
- Hellbound
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts]
- Bolt thrower
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts]
- Bolt thrower
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts]
- Bolt thrower
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
++ Rare Units [104 pts] ++
6 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders [104 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Cavalry spears
- Light armour
- Shields
- Feigned Flight (0-1 per 1000 points)
- Boss (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician
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Yeah sure, there is definitely room for variety in lists beyond some larger strokes of the brush. Have fun and good luck!
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Hey bro. A few comments from me:
The great taurus doesn’t get the MASSIVE +1T, and is in my book a completely redundant choice for a sorcerer prophet. Bale Taurus all the way, if that’s the way you wanna go. You can get away without the meteoric armour, but it’s really nice vs. cannonballs, and armour of silvered steel is clutch against massed poison shooting, if you’ll be facing that.
Hobo Khan on wolf is the best ruby ring caddie, imo. His mobility allows him to stay out of dispel ranges, and evasive adds to his defense vs. shooting.
Consider 12 infernal guard for less risk of panic. I’ve played around with fireglaives, and I gotta say: with their abysmal BS, coupled with the weapon’s range… I don’t really think it’s worth it.
12 hobgoblins in a unit is a good number, so the enemy will have to kill 4 instead of 3 to force a panic on a full unit.
Why did you give your black orcs that many shields? 8 is enough to offer 3+ save throughout the game. The angry ladz banner is SHIT, if you pardon my language. Purposefully putting frenzy on a unit is just not a good idea. Playing someone who even remotely knows what they’re doing, they will get frenzy baited, and they won’t be able to catch anything cause they’re infantry. Raggedy banner for larger units, a war banner for smaller, or even nothing is preferable.
The deathshrieker is overrated IMO. The low strength is what pulls it down. Consider a hit a 5+. Vs. regular T6 monsters, you’ll then need a 4+ to wound. They’ll then have a 5+ or better armour save in all likelihood, after which they’ll have a ward and/or regen. It’s a lot of hoops to go through for that sweet D6 multiple wounds. A cannon or even a damn doom diver has a better chance of wounding 
Hellbound Iron Daemon is awesome.
Bolt throwers are nice when they hit (which is rare, but luckily they’re cheap)
I’m not sold on wolf riders. I suppose they’re good at baiting frenzied units? They die ridiculously easily, though. What’s the plan with them, in your mind?
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Main attraction in my book for them is to give the Wolf-Ring-Khan access to Reserve Move.
It’s not a bad point, only: it makes him (and his unit) a bigger target in terms of points scored. With the kind of target saturation we can provide, a 99pt lone hero - who is already annoyingly difficult to get a hold of - can easily dismissed as not worth it, allowing him to do his dirty work. If he’s in a unit of 5-6 wolves, he and his unit suddenly look both more threatening and juicy in terms of VP’s.
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Lemme answer !
1.) I figured that made a huge difference vs more meta stuff I made the change bc I don’t usually play vs multi mount lists.
2.) Hobo Khan with ring does sound really useful…hmm.
3.) That’s a really good point and yea, I am incredibly deflated on their guns overall. May just stick with GWs or hand weapons for the tax in a competitive mentality.
4.) Ditto on the unit size. Makes sense thx.
5.) I did not. I copied the unit from Tom’s GT inning list. I assume the extra shields are to compensate for than 1 turn of taking shots which seems likely. Personally I really like angry lads and I cannot speak from much experience but I will bet that part of the hobgoblins use can be to screen. However, I do think angry lads is amazing though…and you get the extra offense when you are charged and I bet that’s a major selling point. Now, it’s totally possible you lose your entire fighting rank when charged but aside from impact hits I believe the Ash aura will be a major factor in getting those extra wounds when you don’t get the charge. Just speculatio.n
6.) Something something artillery is bad in this edition. I haven’t run arty so often to have a lot to say about it, but I feel you. I love Dreadquakes impact on the Meta and all but JFC the amount of points you have to put into it just to make it more “safe” + babysitting sorcerer tax is rough. I did run a dual dreadquake list a while ago and it was massively oppressive. I would be very curious about an alternate list but wonder what to use with those extra points. (Assuming the extra lvl 1 sorc is kept out of the list that’s a lot to play with… 350ish points!)
7.) Choo choo is fun but dear Lord when it’s weakness is exposed it’s EXPOOOOSED (spells that throws massive weak shots out that ignore regular armor but allow wards for example). I need more games with it for sure
8.) I feel this game has a lot of “if it happens early, it can swing the game significantly” and bolt throwers are on that list. Will four bolt throwers all hit and wound a dragon on t1? Probably not. But it still can happen.
9.) I only had a chance to run them once so far and they were the most valuable unit in the game in terms of what they killed. They cost practically nothing per model and have so many special rules at their disposal it’s insane. So far I have yet to be impressed with Bull Centaurs for their PPM as they hit hard and then become very flimsy-ish afterwards. They also take up a ton of space. Wolf riders are like… 1/3 of the cost for a centaur and feel like they accomplish the shock troop role better (not to mention combat resolution for flanks or rears!) To your point, if they die easily, you barely invested into them…but with all their special rules it’s quite possible for them to not be hit. Granted, I have only run my centaurs with great weapons so after their initial charge is when I have problems
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I’ve been wondering this for a while. Can you shed some light specifically on all the advantages reserve move gives you instead of marching? I know it allows you to do an extra quick turn but I’m sure there’s several other as well
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