I was planning a 3,3,3,1 formation to march up a flank 2 turns then volley fire. Nearly all get to fire
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Oh, 3,3,3,1 sounds interesting. And you can still use marching column
Anyone considered lists using the Renegade pack? Iāve got some tournaments coming up that will be allowing it. Iām thinking that Ironsworn in core has a tremendous potential for points denial. A castellan on Bale Taurus is not the best, but heās no slouch either.
Iām thinking something like this for a beardy af 2k list:
++ Characters [802 pts] ++
Infernal Castellan [360 pts]
(Darkforged weapon, Full Plate, Shield, General, Bale Taurus, Mantle of Stone, Talisman of Protection)
Sorcerer-Prophet [455 pts]
(Darkforged weapon, Heavy armour, Level 4 Wizard, Lammasu [Mace tail + Sorcerous Exhalation], Armour of Destiny, Mantle of Stone, Dark Magic)
Hobgoblin Khan [87 pts]
(Hand weapon, Throwing weapons, Shortbow (replaces throwing weapons), Giant Wolf, Ruby Ring of Ruin)
++ Core Units [513 pts] ++
10 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shortbows)
10 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [30 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shortbows)
17 Infernal Ironsworn [453 pts]
(Great weapons, Full plate armour, Shield, Overseer (champion), Standard bearer [The Lammasuās Beard])
++ Special Units [585 pts] ++
Iron Daemon [310 pts]
(Steam Cannonade, Hand weapons, Hellbound)
Iron Daemon [275 pts]
(Steam Cannonade, Hand weapons)
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Yeah, I have been toying around with the renegade pack a bit latey. Our biggest local TO is already considering making the pack legal at our events. Up to now there is also a 400 pt unit cap which explains some odd numbers with my lists.
My takes look quite similar so far. This is what I came up with:
2000 pts
++ Characters [940 pts] ++
Infernal Castellan [389 pts]
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- Pistol
- Shield
- General
- Bale Taurus
- 2x Mantle of Stone
- Talisman of Protection
Sorcerer-Prophet [455 pts]
- Darkforged weapon
- Heavy armour
- Level 4 Wizard
- Lammasu [Mace tail + Sorcerous Exhalation]
- Armour of Destiny
- Scroll of Binding
- Daemonology
Hobgoblin Khan [96 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Throwing weapons
- Great weapon
- Light armour
- Shield
- Shortbow (replaces throwing weapons)
- Giant Wolf
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
++ Core Units [506 pts] ++
16 Infernal Ironsworn [398 pts]
- Great weapons
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Overseer (champion)
- Standard bearer [War Banner]
- Musician
12 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [36 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shortbows
12 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [36 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shortbows
12 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [36 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shortbows
++ Special Units [478 pts] ++
Iron Daemon [310 pts]
- Steam Cannonade
- Hand weapons
- Hellbound
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts]
- Bolt thrower
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts]
- Bolt thrower
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
12 Sneaky Gits [78 pts]
- Two hand weapons
- Throwing weapons
- Musician
++ Rare Units [76 pts] ++
5 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders [76 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Cavalry spears
- Light armour
- Shields
- Shortbow
- Reserve Move (0-1 per 1000 points)
- Musician
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Imo 2 mantles of stone donāt add all that much. Youāre immune to S2 - I think thereās the one Necromancy magic missile that does a lot of those with no armour save, but not much else. S8 and 9 arenāt that prevalent and the S10 cannons will bonk you on 2+ anyway.
I feel like itās either 1 or go all the way with 3. Being immune to S3 is huge and can make you an utter nuisance to a lot of things.
Whatās the pistol for? 
Heās our most mobile guy, and for sure heās better in melee than shooting.
Last thing: I was surprised to see a great weapon in favour of a darkforged weapon! Honestly not a bad way to go, but itās of course non-magical, and you lose the 3+ armour in CC.
Is binding scroll worth the points? I know a dispel scroll was mandatory in 8th, but how game-altering can a single spell be, in OW? I guess a little bit, at times, but Iām wondering if the points are worth it.
No mantle of stone leaves the expensive Lammy sorcerer at T5, which is unfortunate, since heās a large target and relatively clumsy, compared to a flying monstrous cav.
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Oh yeah, the Binding Scroll was a leftover from a previous game. I now also go for the T6 on the Lammasu again.
In regards to the Taurus, I must say, I really like T8. Yourāe immune to Str2 and a cannon, Stone Thrower, Kamikaze, etc only wound you 50% vs 67%. Thatās quite nice to have. You can also go into Dragon Ogres and other Str 7 stuff more easily.
On the GW vs Darkforged I am still not sure as wellā¦
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Time for a game tonight.
Been tinkering lists all day long for the last week and get more and more confused ^^
Since I want to practice for my comped event coming up (no unit bigger than 400 pts or 40 models, rule of 3), I tomorrow want to go back to double demon:
Alpine DoubleDualPunch [1998 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Chaos Dwarfs, Renegade
Sorcerer-Prophet, Darkforged weapon, Level 4 Wizard, General, Lammasu [Mace tail + Sorcerous Exhalation], Mantle of Stone, Armour of Destiny, Elementalism - 455
Hobgoblin Khan, Throwing weapons, Great weapon, Light armour, Shield, Shortbow (replaces throwing weapons), Giant Wolf, Ruby Ring of Ruin - 96
Sorcerer-Prophet, Darkforged weapon, Level 4 Wizard, Lore Familiar, Elementalism - 265
12 Hobgoblin Cutthroats - 36
12 Hobgoblin Cutthroats - 36
19 Infernal Guard, Hailshot blunderbuss, Shield, Drilled, Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Full Command - 400
10 Hobgoblin Cutthroats - 30
10 Sneaky Gits - 60
Iron Daemon, Hellbound - 310
Iron Daemon, Hellbound - 310
Created with āOld World Builderā
[https://old-world-builder.com]
Waddayathink?
So far, the only thing I find missing is some Magic Res on the Blunderbusses, but I donāt know what to cutā¦
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Hi @Osboan , overall looks good, lots of fire power. A couple of thoughts:
- Armor of meteoric iron and talisman of protection combo is more efficient than armor of destiny (the former saves 10/18 wounds whereas the latter saves 9/18 wounds on average - assuming it gives you an amor save). Plus you get an extra 20 pts and can buy a power scroll or a luck stone, etc.
- the big advantage of the Khan with the ruby ring is if heās in a unit of wolf riders with reserve move. If the goal is just to have another magic missile, Iād put it on the lvl4 on foot, and drop the Khan and use the points elsewhere.
- I always put a musician on my sneaky gitz because theyāre always needing to rally or do march checks and the +1 ld is really useful for that.
Cheers
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One of the big threats to our flying guys is massed poisoned shooting. With the Lamassu, your enemy is unlikely to get off plague of rust or similar, so youāll be mostly saving on 5+ 4++ with armour of destiny. Not to mention the perfect case scenario in a duel with a traitor dwarf wielding a runed great weapon.
Cannonballs is ofc a different matter.
Iām partial to the lone hobo Khan myself. Reserve move is good, but so is evasive, if you play it right. 24" is a nice range for the magic missile, so most often you can set yourself up to be safe from retaliation. Heās also cheaper and smaller, so your enemy often feels forced to ignore him in favour of larger perceived threats.
Good point. I never use them, but good point 
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I guess it depends on the balance of risks. If I was mainly concerned about no AP poison shooting than armor of silvered steel and ToP would give a 3+ 5++ for also 70 points. But I guess it will depend on peopleās empirical experiences about which set of wounds they think theyāre most likely to encounter.
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Thanks for your inputs on the different saves. Of course I have pondered these numbers back and forth many times and in the end, it really comes down to personal preference and luck with what your opponents bring.
All 3 mentioned options are quite equal and I also switch between them from time to time.
The musician I forgot, thatās a good point, thx. The march test is really quite important on them.
The Khan alone also does quite some lifting for me. Yes, he has to play a little more careful but I will still use him over putting the Ring onto anoher char most of the time. He can get to places where the others canāt and especially harass backline stuff.
I had a fun game last weekend and all of the team delivered:
- Lamassu cast well and tanked lots of stone thrower shots.
- the 2nd Prophet was really nice in the Blunderbuss unit, providing me with even more Elementalism. Knowing you have double TMP lets you play more chilled.
- Khan was a pain as he should.
- Blunderbusses and ID did loads of damage
- First time Dreadquake Mortar was quite fun! He barely did any damage but the movement control was abusive.
- the real heroes where the Sneaky Gits. They came in on round 2, shot an incoming Doomseeker, tanked and destroyed a Pony Cart, then shot off a Goblin Hewer and then finally chaffed a King.
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Praise Hashut! Always love to hear when sneaky gitz are punching above their weight : )
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Sorry, double post, please delete.
So as the next tournament is getting closer, I am becoming more and more nervous:
Black Orc Boss - yes or no?
If yes - Boar, Chariot, Wyvern?
1 or 2 Prophets?
1 ID and a Dreadquake or 2 ID?
As also talked about in another thread, I would like to ask the crowd how you deal with undead specifically. Should I take a Lammasu + wyvern to outflank like, say a Mortis Engine?
For ethereal units or characters; spells, magic items, ensorcelled weapons, a Lammasuās breath weapon, and or hellbound will work. For large chaff units; a large blast template, a war machine, and or a spell. Generally, avoid getting near anything with wailing dirge 
What is everyones experience with bolt throwers?
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Hit and miss. 
On a good days theyāll make their pints back easily. But Iād say the usual shooting round is two misses for two bolt throwers.
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I take the bolt throwers and they hit about 1/3 of the time. I like them as they are fairly cheap. They are great against large targets. When they do hit the through and through does a good amount of damage.
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Just checking in to report that I brought a Renegade chorf list to a tournament with ironsworn in core and a castellan on Bale Taurus.
What I took from the experience:
The ironsworn barely functioned any better than infernal guard, and a blorc warboss is hands down better than the castellan. That is all
I had two draws and a fairly close loss. Placed 10 out of 15.
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My ironsworn kicked arse last night. Killing a unit of poisoned archer orcs and bigboss. They were added by the flying spell down their flank allowing me to charge the folloeing turn. Drilled to expand frontage a bit before charging seemed powerful. Hope i did it rightā¦
And yes a 3 wsy battleā¦we can never get 4 players!
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