Xander:
Now that I have my rumour about the Chaos Dwarf release, I am less apt to pursue this idea. Others are still welcome to, though.
grimsnikk:
But the way I understand it you would then again sell conversion parts specifically for GW miniatures. Which they won't allow.No, youd be selling finished conversions. Youd be mass producing your own scale pieces and a new bearded front, which is fine. you're allowed to sculpt your own stuff, then youd assemble it and sell the finished model.
Ishkur Cinderhat
Although if this were the plan i'd say maybe making a rank of 5 per type, so like 5 w/ shield, 5 w/ GW and 5 w/ BB. and maybe a few varities of a full commad set of 3. say.. like 2 or 3 versions of each.
It's not actually that bad as it seems to make all those things, because the scales would be same made up sprue. and that might only mean about 10 beard sets or so.
The arms themselves wiuld have to be manually conveted a bit. Lets say you use miner arms for the bare armed look. You'd need to take a real bit and use that for the axe head (or use a scratch built one) and use a real arm. Same thing for the shields, which wouldn't be so bad since you could use marauder shields. and the BBs would get the thunderer gun and mini-shield bitz converted on each guy.
Iunno, it seems like if you could mass produce a custom torso for the beard and just glue on pieces to go over the chainmail, doing an axe head swap, or something similiar would be pretty quick.
AGPO:
I think a compromise would be best. Have a three part kit for the body: Legs, Back of Torso, Front of Torso. That in addition to arms, weapons, etc.I think this is by far and away the best option. Maybe what is needed is someone to produce some articles on how to make CDs with minimum convertion effort/skill, to make them more accesible. I'm talking paint schemes, head/weapon swaps and useful extras, as well as a list of suitable models. That way, everyone can play CDs with a lot less time and effort. Since resin casts cost about the same as GW metals it works out
Then allow bits orders. Simple, we have our own complete range that just happens to possibly fit with GW models.
xander
Xander:
Ya, my videos were kind of a “anyone can play Chaos Dwarfs” type of deal.
AGPO:
It was the video guides that inspired many on this site to “have a go” at chaos dwarfs. I’m thinking of doing an article on various ways to create a CD warrior using either BfSP or the regiment set. I’d look at plain paint schemes, minor conversions, more complex conversions and finally full on green stuffing using the original model purely as a base. CDs are a modelers army but theres no reason they have to be difficult. The first CD unit I saw post big hats was a unit of 6th ed dwarf warriors with red chaos stars on their shields and a black paint scheme. The only conversion was using some chaos bits on the command and the standard
torn:
actually selling a made conversion is also illegal. there independent stockist rule state that breaking up sprues for re-sale is against their policy (although a few get away with it). that means that unless they are sold glued together as a used model, not as seperate sprue parts with conversion peices, it wouldnt be ok.
then again their would be ways around that system. the first one would be to not make the whole thing available to the general public. i remember a blood bowl website that managed to give away there own specially coloured blocking dice to those that donated etc.
grimsnikk:
actually selling a made conversion is also illegal. there independent stockist rule state that breaking up sprues for re-sale is against their policy (although a few get away with it). that means that unless they are sold glued together as a used model, not as seperate sprue parts with conversion peices, it wouldnt be ok.
torn
Torn- I'm assuming you were talking to Xander here, but yeah.. if you did do it, you'd have to make finished conversions. You couldn't like.. convert the torso and sell it along side a bunch of arms
No, youd be selling finished conversions.��Youd be mass producing your own scale pieces and a new bearded front, which is fine.��you're allowed to sculpt your own stuff, then youd assemble it and sell the finished model.
grimsnikk
torn:
yeah thats what i mean. i suppose its a small price to pay, and its not like it cant be glued together lightly or to a specific design.
Grimstonefire:
Basically what this all amounts to is various people here continually producing ‘complete’ conversions to the exact same design, and selling a complete unit when its done.
We would not allow casting of GW pieces, but if people wished to attach resin pieces to GW models they would still be selling them as ‘conversions’.
This would be exactly the same as Scibor is doing. He is mass producing resin parts, attaching them to GW models and selling them as ‘complete’.
Only problem with this way is that people would have to pay GW prices + time and effort… Which may mean that this goes only to those prepared to save themselves the effort and pay.
So that is one feasible option.
The other is to get clarification on producing multi-part models that just happen to fit GW parts.
The captain:
Been reading the Gee-dub’s legal stuff on the website (there is an awful ammount of it- some of the stuff being stupid in the extrme in my opinion) after seeing this thread, when i found this
MODEL CONVERSION KITSi think best way to do this, if your still considering it, would be to keep it a ‘in house’ thing and stress the generic nature of the cast ie. referring to them as not chaos dwarf, giving them a unique look and so on, mabey even a full model, with dirrent torso’s, legs, arms, heads etc
We do not allow unlicensed third parties to manufacture or produce conversion kits for our models. We need to be able to control our products and all derivatives thereto in order that we produce quality products for years to come.
For anyone who’s interested heres the long amount of things you can and cant do: http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/canandcant/1/#cannotdo
Apparently, you cant legally make conversions using non GW parts…that being one of my favourates
torn:
you also cant get and GW iconography tattooed apparently. how they would ever sue you for copyright i dont know.
Hammerhand:
It’s not so much the legal risk as the risk that you will be prosecuted.��GW’s stranglehold on the whole thing is it’s IP, or Intelectual Property.��This means that anything that remotely looks like something they have designed is an infringement on their IP copywrite.��However, as has been pointed out, several people openly do this without any repercussions.��You have to ask what GW’s priorities are, are they going to chase down the small fry who is distributing kits amongst club members that he himself has created based on some old GW material? this involves lengthy and costly investigations as well as any legal fees in bringing the person to court.��GW are alot more concerned with people making direct casts of their kits they have on sale right now en-masse that is damaging their income through reduced sales and reputation through poor quality copies. GWs exact stance is:
CONVERSIONS
Conversions are a major aspect of the hobby, although in Intelectual Property[/u]terms, they also constitute a major infringement. However, we are certainly not about to stop people making cool conversions of our products, although, there are certain things to keep in mind:
Please do not combine our intellectual properties with IP owned by any third parties.
Your conversions should be one-time, unique masterpieces of hobby goodness. Do not create a production run of conversions for sale.[/u][/b] Whilst infringing our IP, this is also simply not hobby.
CASTING
Do not cast any materials that are based[/u][/b] upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide.
So in this, making casts of your own conversion or even scratch built model that is based on their IP infringes copywrite.��Bear in mind Xanders siegeshakers! (I would love one if you get any more parts by the way!)
Also:
MODEL CONVERSION KITS
We do not allow unlicensed third parties to manufacture or produce conversion kits for our models[/u][/b]. We need to be able to control our products and all derivatives thereto in order that we produce quality products for years to come.
I think this one has been mentioned before.
This is lifted direct from GW’s legal website.��I have to say that because of copywrite, you see where I’m going?
So, in essence, What I am saying is, by having CDs in your avatars, by having a CD logo at the top of this web page without denoting GW as the owner, by converting our models to look how we want them to look we are breaking copywrite through their IP.��Are GW going to do anything about it? No way! the fact we are doing all this is boosting their business through the hobby, if we make our own conversionn kits to distribute amongst our members, we are not damaging GW’s sales or reputation. Would it be worth it for GW to sue the perpetrator? not at all! Although it wouldn’t be hard to prove the breach of copywrite, it would be very difficult to prove what financial damage this has done to GW, and the money recouped by the company would probably barely cover , if at all, the costs of investigating the matter (legal costs can be recouped).��So do it and don’t worry, as long as people like the guy in Grims link are blatently widdling all over GWs IP, and making a fortune, we would be quite safe.
Can I have some of the first batch please!!:cheers
grom:
ur some lawer or something? 
and what about this project? its still up, or rather dead?
Hammerhand:
ur some lawer or something? ;)Not lawyer, but (don't laugh) I have done some fiction writing courses and Novel writing workshops, we pretty much get hammered by all of the Intelectual Property and Plagiarism stuff from the word go.��Also, if you remember from the press, Dan Brown had a massive case against him because his novel 'The Davinci Code' ripped off the IP of 'The Holy Grail and The Holy Blood'.��He hadn't copied any of their work, just used their ideas without their permission. He had even credited their book in his novel!��IP basically means you can copywrite an idea.
and what about this project? its still up, or rather dead?
grom
As Mr Brown proved, this sort of thing takes a lot of time and a lot of money, it does not make business sense to waste resources chasing it up when the activity has no or little negative effect on your product.
As for the project, I hope it's alive because it is going to take me an awfull long time to convert a fair sized army, especcialy with my skills! we will probably discussing the revisions in Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs 4th edition by the time I'm finished!!!!
grom:
so ur a writer who have knowledge in copyrights… (then u can write with easy some shortcuts for some units in development part of forum ;))…
Hammerhand:
so ur a writer who have knowledge in copyrights... (then u can write with easy some shortcuts for some units in development part of forum ;))...Check out my Memoirs... short story in the armybook development/background forum I welcome your steely eye and look forward to feedback! :cheers
grom
BLOOD AXE:
This ever go anywhere or is it dead?? I’d LOVE some castings like ISHKUR has!
cornixt:
On the issue of copyrights, the 40K film is finished but stuck in limbo forever because of them.��I don’t know quite how it works but the makers can’t even give it to GW
Ishkur Cinderhat:
On the issue of copyrights, the 40K is finished but stuck in limbo forever because of them.��I don't know quite how it works but the makers can't even give it to GWHuh? It seems to me that you are referring to the Damnatus fan movie, is that right?
cornixt
In any way I think the last few posts in this thread made it pretty clear that selling conversion parts specifically for GW products is not without legal risks - which might not be worth taking.
cornixt:
Yeah, I mised out the word “film” for some reason, edited it in there now.