Admiral:
Back to your comments, Admiral:
These are the sorts of things I'll throw in as snippets but, as I've said to Baggronor, I don't want to get bogged down in the minutia of the setting. Details like that are useful for world-building, but one thing I've learnt over the years is that everything serves a purpose. The Warhammer world, for example, has massive gaps in it (like hardly any women, for one thing...) but it works because the whole concept of the setting is to provide an excuse for over a dozen nations to constantly be at each other's throats. It's a game about war, so it has to be a world constantly torn apart by endless, apocalyptic conflicts. Everything written for Warhammer serves that end. With Titan Wargames, the objective is to sell figures and to give those figures reason to fight each other: so while it might be of passing interest to know how they make their clothes or whatever, if the solution to that problem isn't something cool that makes someone want to get involved in the setting and buy the toys, it's so many wasted words.
So I'm not going to lose too much sleep about the logistics of how the Dwarven Empire actually works! The purpose at the moment is to create the impression of a world that is strange, dark and claustrophobic. A world whose necessarily limited horizons give it a strange resonance with our own medieval past (for example), but which is also fundamentally alien because of what and where it is. I hope people are picking up on what a weird thing it is to live completely underground - not just in tunnels below the surface, but deep in the bedrock of some unknown world, so that even a concept like gravity isn't completely intuitive (because, without a "ground", why is down down?). The logistical problems are part of that but, as I say, the solutions have to be cool, otherwise what's the point?
Thommy H
Of course, I understand that. (Besides, the impression of the underground world already strikes home - that is why I've been thinking quite about a few small concepts.) The boldened bit is precisely what I have in mind... but forget about that for a while. I'll scan a rough-hewn concept sketch tomorrow or so, and hope that it'll convey what I had in mind - that is, the sheer cruelty and bizarre process involved in just making some simple cloth. Of course, such a thing may be slightly difficult to find a suitable place to throw it in at, but I do believe that both you and Baggronor are going to like it. If not, it might make for a little laugh on CDO, at least.
And no, I'm not out after some freebies. :P
Anyhow, Baggronor, I think you should first go with your plan of warriors-shooters-elites, then jump onto goblins. Whilst doing goblins, you could sculpt what special dwarf units you feel for. Tunnelmen, as an example, would perhaps benefit from having goblin skulls and severed heads - it should come natural to sculpt them along with the goblin miniatures.
Admiral:
Thommy H: Now, stuff like this was what I had in mind when I talked about odd production of ordinary materials:
Cloth raw material refinement
I. Push and lever the adult slime larva onto a spiked cart.
II. Dry out all juices.
III. Impale the larva and mount it on a spin rack.
IV. Using a razor comb, flay and shred the slime larva into hide ropes.
V. Task the apprentice clothmen with carding the hide ropes into thread.
Drawing it on bad quality paper certainly didn’t help, but I hope the idea gets through nevertheless. (Baggronor, if you like it, you can claim it - it’s a quick half-an-hour piece of work, done for the fun of it.)
Baggronor:
That’s very detailed :o
Yeah, things like making cloth and rope would have to be done in different ways to overground life. Grinding up bugs is pretty dark though, although the inks that I use also originated in grinding up bugs…
Admiral:
That's very detailed :o
Yeah, things like making cloth and rope would have to be done in different ways to overground life. Grinding up bugs is pretty dark though, although the inks that I use also originated in grinding up bugs...
Baggronor
Thanks, but it's more rough-hewn than detailed. Bad paper. Note that English isn't my primary language, in case of errors. :yar
But the important questions are: Is it cool enough? Do you like it? And does it fit in?
(Nobility garb would likely be made of fresh spider silk, I guess. Acquiring it would probably be dangerous work, hence its high value.)
Baggronor:
I like the idea of Dwarves doing things like that, yes, as its different, yet makes sense. Farming Hellmites or similar underground bugs for silk would be plausible and fits in.
The tech level for my Dwarves is a bit vague at the moment, so its interesting to consider things like cast iron frames and particularly cogs (as they need to be pretty much perfect to function) in their day to day lives.
Stuff to think about, cheers :cheers
Thommy H:
The tech-level is further complicated by the available materials down in the Underworld - there’s oodles and oodles of stone and metal, but no wood at all, so some things that might seem like logical steps to us wouldn’t occur to the Dwarves. Also, as it’s a fantasy setting (rather than an elaborate speculative fiction thought experiment) they still need to have technology that is recognisable to us - axes and hammers and doors and forges and what have you. Things that might never have been invented if the Underworld was a real place. Although, as has been implied, their culture is adapted to the underground setting: it didn’t come into being there.
Admiral:
The tech-level is further complicated by the available materials down in the Underworld - there's oodles and oodles of stone and metal, but no wood at all, so some things that might seem like logical steps to us wouldn't occur to the Dwarves. Also, as it's a fantasy setting (rather than an elaborate speculative fiction thought experiment) they still need to have technology that is recognisable to us - axes and hammers and doors and forges and what have you. Things that might never have been invented if the Underworld was a real place. Although, as has been implied, their culture is adapted to the underground setting: it didn't come into being there.
Thommy H
Yes, that's a good explanation for the "Earth-familiar" tech: Tradition.
Damn, Thommy H, the fictional world of claustrophobia and dark awesomeness that you and Baggronor are fleshing out really has fired up the imagination. A friend of mine read your description of the Dwarven Empire, and he was pretty awestruck. Inspirational for our own work, in a couple of areas. Anyhow, if it isn't too off-topic, I'll post another sketch (which got too dark as I attempted to shade the damn lake, a tone that then hung on to the rest of the pictures):
Dwarven cave fishing
I. Hook flesh and insect intestines into the net.
II. Haul the net through a lake. Big fish should be attracted by the bait and get caught. Younglings escape.
III. The gunmen shoots any large predatorial creatures threatening the catch or the net.
IV. Stumblers are left to their fate in the slimy water. The risks are too high with picking them up, and few dwarves can even swim, or dive. The careless drown.
V. The net is dragged on shore. Here, axemen liquidate the lives of larger creatures, whilst smaller ones die a slow death on land.
VI. Set the fishermen to draw the catch, then conservate it in iron barrels with minerals extracted from the salt mines. The Overlord will have a seventh of the lake food, as is his right.
Does it play along the spirit of the setting? Note that I'm not pushing anything here - I'm just tossing ideas at ya. View this as a "thank you" for the very good stories.
Thommy H:
Yeah, it certainly fits, and I’m glad my writing is inspiring you and your friend. Hopefully others feel the same and that will translate into some sales for Baggronor!
As I’ve said, the technology and the details of everyday life are a bit by-the-by at the moment. I’m making up a lot of stuff as I go along, because that’s pretty much how I do everything, and throwing in those random bits and pieces is what helps to populate the world. Don’t be surprised if you see a mention of some of your ideas here and there, Admiral, although maybe not where you might imagine…
Admiral:
Yeah, it certainly fits, and I'm glad my writing is inspiring you and your friend. Hopefully others feel the same and that will translate into some sales for Baggronor! [/QUOTE]
I assure you it will, at least from me and perhaps a little from some friends and my brother.
Thommy H
That's the best way to work things out: Make them up as you go along. And when the creative channel is open, a lot of odd stuff might creep out.
I'll keep my eyes open for future references. ;)
Admiral:
Once started, it’s hard to finish. Had I not completed his little sketch, I wouldn’t have got any sleep tonight… Here comes the third, in coloured and black-white scan:
Overlord Tharkuk Bloodback
As always, these sketches are all yours for the taking, if you want, Baggronor.
Admiral:
Another quick piece of fan art (coloured and black-white scan), this time a dwarven tale to underline the importance of carving exploration marks in unknown territory, similar to rolling out thread in a labyrinth:
The Fate of Bok Orebeard
"Carve thy mark"
“From Deepdelve came a seasoned body, of three-times-ten men, miners all.
Their leader, prospect’r Bok Orebeard, rallied strong souls, heard his call.
Through Glowdeeps, Deadmere, Kaal and Coaldelve, they reached the Deeps, were no hall.
Searching riches, trailing gems, they roped down sinkholes, climbed each wall.
Bok kept just to the Deep’s outskirts, marked each tunnel, avoiding brawl.
Runes were chiseled at every spot, be it Quakesoot, Dreadnook or Hellmite’s Fall.
Wonders, terrors, Goblin lairs; Bok’s band mapped, and marked with tool.
Long they stumbled nigh in peace, yet still were cornered by vermin cruel.
Their dragons spat and axes bit, but the Goblins stabbed with poison cool.
All around the men collapsed, with beards deep thick with blood and drool.
Bok fled far, and marked last rock, to find in bare ground his death stool.
His last act serve those who follow, so carve thy mark if we shall rule.”
Baggronor:
Have you ever tried charcoal, Admiral? It might work well with your drawing style. Just a hunch. I used it for a few years, inks are more my thing, but I think you might enjoy the positive/negative of charcoal and an eraser.
The song is impressive, very Tolkien. Might be able to use it somewhere, not sure where at the moment though. I might insert it into the rules pamphlet at some point, assuming its ok with you?
Admiral:
Have you ever tried charcoal, Admiral? It might work well with your drawing style. Just a hunch. I used it for a few years, inks are more my thing, but I think you might enjoy the positive/negative of charcoal and an eraser.
The song is impressive, very Tolkien. Might be able to use it somewhere, not sure where at the moment though. I might insert it into the rules pamphlet at some point, assuming its ok with you?
Baggronor
Sure, the loot is all yours, cap'n. :yar
I've tried charcoal, but I'm more fond with graphite. I normally draw with graphite or paint with acrylics, but since a project of me and a friend is picking up pace, I've begun to experiment with common ball point pencils in preparation for doing some necessary pieces in Indian ink. I did quite some ball point pencil drawings at the course I'm attending this spring, and have been exercising a bit of lately on these fan art pieces, since the Titan setting is just too cool not to be hooked by.
Thorne:
I hope you plan in the future at some point making figure lines as in owl bears, beholder monsters, golems and umberhulk type figures. I for one have always considered evil dwarves an the be all and end all of harvesting the most dangerous and evil dezians of the darkest places in search of the nastiest nasties to take to war as pets and or unusual cannon fodder. I could just see a whip and branding iron dwarf pushing a umberhulk into the path of a elfen force and seeing it crumble in fear of being ripped asunder under it’s huge scaled mass of claw and muscle. But I guess those are the pipe dreams of a crazy guy 
Thommy H:
It’s probably worth mentioning that the Dwarves of the Underworld aren’t actually “evil” per se. Their world is brutal and claustrophobic, and they can be selfish, short-sighted, barbaric and cruel, but no more so than human beings have been, are and will be in the future. Baggronor and I are both keen that the setting be a little more nuanced than, say, the Warhammer world.
Baggronor:
But I guess those are the pipe dreams of a crazy guy :p
I have grand plans for monsters. They're in the distant future, but they'll happen. One excrutiatingly slow step at a time...
Borador:
It was quite a read, but well worth it!
I really like the setting, so do me a favor and publish me a nice book (:
(had a book about dwarves in the works my self but it never really got finished… Hmm maybe this summer haha!)
I really like the direction Titan wargames is heading, the fluff is cool, just like the miniatures, they are eating on me!!
Thommy H:
Hey, if you’ll buy it, I’ll write it…