Thinking about BATG

Hi @BATG_Warriors -

My dumb graphs have cause a lot of chat in my DMs lately. People are having a lot of fun - but lately there’s been some rumblings. Some people mentioned to me that BATG is making them feel guilty, others that self-reported antics are stretching the limits of comfort.

So I thought I would poll you guys for a quick pit-stop before the August rankings next month. There’s two polls…

Is ranking worth doing?

  • BATG ranking is fun and good, we should keep doing it
  • BATG should be left up to the individual, let’s stop ranking it

0 voters

How should we rank?

  • BATG scores should follow some basic rules so we’re all on the same page
  • BATG scores should be a personal thing, people can declare what they want

0 voters

I’m very relaxed on this so I’ll straight up do what people say in this poll.

2 Likes

I think for batg 2022 we shouldn’t suddenly add rules. We can do this for next year absolutely.

6 Likes

IMO it great as it is… For me its motivation to paint and try not to buy on impulse, even thought that might not show in my stats. :sweat_smile:
And Im for some general very basic rules, otherwise there isn’t much base for general CDO statistics. I think BATG is fun and keeps me engaged. :slight_smile:

On the topic of feeling guilty, isn’t that kinda the purpose of it? To give you feedback on your current status and a pause to tell you “Hey is this what you want to do or just FOMO?” before going ahead? Its called pile of shame, eh? Anyway I cant really see why someone should commit to this and then feel guilty about it, just dont be apart of it and get rid of any negative emotions you might have regarding it.

Anyway, just my 5 cent…

8 Likes

Listen to this man, for he is wise!

7 Likes

100% agree with tjub. BATG helps me to keep track of my ‘inventory’ and has definitely reduced overall purchases (impulse or otherwise) for me as well. Has it helped me paint more minis? Probably not. Feeling guilty about it? No. I had a very productive year so far. This does not show up in my BATG score but BATG is not supposed to rate our hobby productivity as a whole.

I think BATG is a great initiative for everyone to reflect about their consumer habits and I am very thankful that it gained so much traction, even if I will score last place this year.

7 Likes

I mostly just want a record of all the stuff I’ve painted in a year. The monthly ranking is just a fun comment on how everything went, I’m not going to lose any sleep over Michael beating everyone.

And what Anzu says, it’s a nice way to have a look at your spending habits. It’s so easy to just buy some more mini’s and chuck them on the pile, but now you have to think twice if you don’t want to ruin your score.

7 Likes

Yeah I’m of the same mind as Tjub.
I mean first and foremost I like so much how positive our community is, always motivating, always uplifting. I wouldn’t want anybody feel guilty about their hobby or their progress, that’s literally the last thing I want for this community. Then again (Ugh, I know), the BATG from the getgo had this “yada yada yada and get praise from the community or eternal shame” or however it was phrased, so the very core idea of the BATG was to be “accountable” if you buy more than you paint. And I like chitz’s “so what? own it!” approach. And personally I’m a fan of a little banter here and there.

8 Likes

This is quite heartening. We have all discussed gentleman’s rules in private over the months but not everyone is online at the right time or even a discord user at all, and the fact is, our different expectations in that sense are now going to start to change the “top” of the graph.

I think @MichaelX 's point is well made, and we clearly need to agree a start point in January of next year for those choosing to Batt the G again.

However given the votes , I also think it’s worth conceding at this point in the year that the majority of people would prefer a single set of standards, but that’s not how we are all operating, with people having different standards for finished minis and crediting themselves differently with minis acquired.

So, I’ll be paying attention to that in my comedy writeups. I hope everyone remembers I am just some guy and this is a bar-talk bragging rights situation, everything is just for fun, and if the fun stops - stop.

Any painted mini you’re happy with should bring you joy, and anything you buy should bring you joy also.

5 Likes

I think the thing that gets forgotten in the rankings is, a win is a score of -1! Chasing after massive numbers is all fine and good, but some people don’t even have enough models to hit blackshard, so a “high” ranking isn’t even possible.

5 Likes

I think it has been a great initiative to get more painted minis up on the CDO interwebs, both chaos dwarf and otherwise themed. For me it’s been a less effort option compared to @Oxymandias 1 or 9 million unique off topic showcases of which Tzeentch Ogres is still my favorite.

I agree with Bas (and basically all other comments above) for me personally I’ve greatly enjoyed a sorted catalog of my years work. As opposed to post and forget social media. Banter is great and the increase in hobby hangouts this year is an awesome side effect.

We all want to see peoples painted projects. Having pictures in the blog is really the only “rule” in my mind. Obviously there are extenuating circumstances why pictures might not be immediate (contests, waiting for that unit/army to be finished, camera recently pissed on, too busy writing OC for your doubtlessly one-of-a-kind DND character, etc).

For me at least, picture forum need pictures. (Or links to 9 million off topic showcase) grunts, beats chest, bonks head with club

5 Likes

absolutely! this is the best unforseen side effect for me personally!

3 Likes

I too wish to hear the genealogy of the DnD character of a random finnish man

2 Likes

Also, as a voice for those who have dropped off, if you’re a slow painter or lack time (both me) tabulating a month’s effort is actually defeating when a win is no longer possible even when individual months are up. So yeah, when the fun stops, people stop, so it’s not worth giving grief for.

1 Like

Yeah. I was slowly slapping paint on night gobs but I was away from results for three months, right. Motivation in the hobby is something people appreciate but when it’s out of your control I do get the guilt angle, cos I’m not sure I’ll get a chance to paint minis between now and Halloween. And yet people keep posting cool stuff!

3 Likes

For me, it’s all about the long game. Getting stuff painted, maintaining focus, working through the pile, earning praise and figuring out what stuff I just don’t want anymore.

Yes, it’s proving some serious uphill going - and I’m probably not going to break even - but I’ve gotten more minis completed so far this year than last year, and this is probably my most productive year ever.

It’s really important not to sweat the month-in-month-out results. Chitz’ commentary is a bit of fun, and - for me at least - a small part of the motivation in a very “witness me” sort of way.

Witness Me Mad Max GIF - Witness Me Mad Max Fury Road GIFs

BATG works for me because I’ve discovered that logging my progress is almost as much fun as making it - but for people who don’t enjoy it, I can see it being a slog.

If I were to give any feedback, I’d say that I love the commentary - I actually felt my enthusiasm wane a bit when @chitzkoi missed a few months. I can see why some people might not, though. Maybe if it was focussed more on that top-ten race and on big wins month-to-month that might help? I do think it’s important that people understand the “competition” part of BATG is just a bit of meaningless fun for those who want to participate. Maybe Chitz can do a little round of opt-in/opt-out for it?

Regarding counts, I think for this year it’s too late to adjust the rules. Let people keep counting however they’ve been counting. For this year, I think this rule covers everything:

“Keep your model count universal. For example a warmachine and crew count as 1 model of the new model count and for the painted model count OR it counts as machine and 3 crew for both counts.”

But also yeah, the whole thing is about accountability. One in, one out. Shame can be a powerful motivator. **eyes credit card history nervously **

2 Likes

I have to say i’m quite happy to see all these replies about people (still) liking BATG.

Are there any @BATG_Warriors who don’t like BATG, or at least the way it’s going now? I really want this to be as inclusive as possible since we all want to see more mini’s painted! We’d be happy to do some changes to the “rules”, though personally i’d still prefer to have us all vote on any changes made.

Please don’t feel ashamed or troubled to say what you don’t like about it or would like to see changed!

Same, it is always a good laugh and motivator.

Sure, not everyone likes pressure, even if it’s self imposed. Having someone highlight it might not be appreciated.

This could potentially be a solution, BUT it does create even more admininstrative work for Chitzkoi, who is sometimes already pressed for time.

4 Likes

I don’t see any issues with BatG. I think it’s going well, we’ve done well to keep this many people involved and there’s enough rules/ self policing for it to be fun enough to observe and comment on.

I’m in two minds about whether to do it again next year. This is not because of any issue I have with the format, the rules or the commentary.

It’s more the fact that every purchase I make gives me a little pang of guilt and my motivation to 3D print has evaporated. And I get that it’s kinda the point? You feel a less like buying and more like painting? And therefore it motivates you in your hobby.

Just for me , personally, I’m not sure it’s the most positive or motivational thing for me. My hobby is one of my few non guilt, non deadline, non committal parts of my life. I call painting down the garage my “regression sessions” cos I’m 10 years old again when I’m doing the hobby and there’s no expectations or restrictions on me. And I paint a lot, right? This BATG year hasn’t been any real difference in my painting and buying habits. But every purchase made me feel a little guilty and I didn’t like that.

I’ve really enjoyed keeping a tally of the amount of models that I’ve painted. That motivates me. The purchases being tallied motivates me less.

But hey, gents, this is not me saying to change anything about BatG. This is more me explaining my personal relationship to the challenge and explaining why I’m less likely to do it again. I committed for this year so I’m obviously seeing it through.

(Also don’t read too much into this. When I say “guilt” I’m not like crying at night or something. Just the purchases are less fun. Like when you eat something nice but it has a strange aftertaste.)

5 Likes

I’m happy with the BATG as it currently is. You know me - I usually paint my minis one at a time and very slowly, but then again I hardly make any purchases (by the way, the one purchase I did make this year was represented correctly in the online chart, I just didn’t do a detailed July update in my BATG blog in order to avoid GH entry spoilers - that will be mended soon :smile:), so I operate with smaller numbers than many others here. But I still like having a log of my progress and holding myself accountable. I regard negative numbers as a personal win, no matter how small. So from my perspective, no need for change so far.

3 Likes

I guess it also depends on aspiration, right. Last December it seemed like a truism to say, “painting minis is the hobby, gaming with painted minis is the aspiration, we all put it off too much and add to cart too often - so let’s do something to hold ourselves to it, and make it fun”.

But buying and visioning is fun in itself, and we don’t want to take that away. It’s really that BATG is for people who look at their backlog and feel discouraged, instead of automatically being for everyone (as I think we all assumed during the December Fever).

Similarly, BATG rewards quantity over quality in a blind, imperfect way, which is why I kicked off this conversation in the first place - because “minimum quality” suddenly becomes topical when i’m going around measuring everyone’s dicks every month, when in reality, the focus is on the personal objective achievement of negative backlog. And as you say @Oxymandias , that goal doesn’t have to be for everyone every year.

I think I will stick with it next year - it is popular because it is fun on the one hand, and on the other, the guilt moment is objectively encouraging more responsible behaviour for some people.

9 Likes

BATG keeps me motivated!

4 Likes