Aaaah, i might try this one too
Hobgoblin Chieftain: āCan we bring our spear chukkas this time?ā
Chaos Dwarf General: āOut of the question! Theyāre crude and wooden and cheap an what not!ā
Hobgoblin Chieftain: āButā¦ā
Chaos Dwarf General: āLook, we already got the most advanced war machines ever - steam-powered, demon-enhanced wonders of magical engineering!ā
Hobgoblin Chieftain: āButā¦ā
Chaos Dwarf General: āWhat?!ā
Hobgoblin Chieftain: āPleeeeeze?ā
Chaos Dwarf General: āOh, alright then, bring them along. Just keep them somewhere in the back where no one sees them.ā
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Its amusing to me that for a unit with blunderbusses (+5) you can have the same unit with great weapons and a unit of hobbos with s bows. I feel like the latter is the better deal. Double the wounds/m9dels on the table.
A unit with blunderbusses and shieldsā¦can they stand and shoot then hw and shields it in the cimbat phase? 4+ save is pretty tasty
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We pay a heavy tax for the iconic Blunderbusses, yes. And I mean you have a point of course. More wounds for the enemy to kill is always better. Itās just the quality of the wounds 
And the Blunderbusses will likely do more damage Doing mathhammer with so many variables is always skewed, but if we do a very simple one:
5 Blunderbusses vs 5 Cutthroats with Shortbows, attacked by humans 24" away.
1st turn: humans march 8" and are 16" away. Cutthroats score maybe 2 hits
2nd turn: humans march 8" and are 8" away. Blunderbusses score an average of 5 hits. Cutthroats maybe 3.
3rd turn: humans charge. Blunderbusses score 5 hits, Cutthroats maybe 2.
So, on average, Blunderbusses score more hits with better weapons (AP-1). And you force your opponent to attack Chaos Dwarfs instead of going after squishy Hobgoblins.
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I just realized that you can just run your castellan on taurus/lammasu as a black orc warboss on wyvern instead. Both the monsters and the characters have similar stats and it just feels right.
Thought Iād mention it incase people hadnāt realized and were still bummed out over the fact that castellans felt so useless.
Edit: and it also solved the main annoyance that castellans donāt have ws7 and access to full plate.
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I like the new pdf other than the destroyer being kia.
I will be running both my bighats and masked units together no reason they shouldnāt have the same stats, they are infused with chaos energy and much fewer numbers than our treacherous mountain humping cousinās. But each to their own.
My question is a follow up from above, can a unit be given shields and blunderbust, stand and shoot then use shields and hand weapon in melee?
Also would it be an effective unit?
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Yes thatās exactly how they work. In this case the canāt use anything other than shields but for fireglaives you can choose if you have both since the handguns also count as halberds.
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Initially I was disappointed that the Destroyer is missing too, but I made my peace with it. Iād rather have him removed from this edition than see a neutered version, a hollow husk, a shadow of his former glory stumble over the battlefield and then be killed by small arms fire or whatnot. The Destroyer will forever reign supreme in 8th, the apex predator. Farewell sweet prince.
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I think we are well placed for monsters and big gear even without it. The fix to fireborn is transformational.
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Can you elaborate? What do you mean āfixā to fireborn?
You think kdaii are good? 2 woundsā¦im confused
Fireborn no longer run the odds to autowound themselves. Theyāre not an autoinclude as Zodd suggests but they were previously totally unusable.
This is part of why the destroyer, already the best monster in 8th mathematically (tho perhaps not for cost), is on the cutting-room floor.
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If they had 3w like everything else id take themā¦2wā¦id need a big big unit or use them as light cav
I reckon a juggernaught is a fine proxy for an iron demon btw. The rules kind of fit
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They used to have to take a toughness test at the start of each turn or lose a wound, which made them a pretty weak choice in 8th.
I think they have potential, though I havenāt used them yet. With 3 attacks and autohits every turn I think they can deal decent damage. Consider 3 KāDaii vs a 5 wide unit of infantry will get 7(!) autohits. If you run the numbers against a 25mm WS4 T4 4+ sv unit you come out with ~3 unsaved wounds from both KāDaii and Renders on the charge. You can also get a 4 KāDaii for the price of 3 Renders which narrows the wound difference for the unit to just 1. Thereās plenty of special rules to take into account as well but I think theyāll hold up well.
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Hmm let me know how you do with them. I have giant pink horrors as proxies for them. They look a bit flimsy so they fit
Yeah they were really trash in legion of azgorh.
On top of all the toughness test stuff they also only had 2 attacks.
They were tankier as well with 4++ and forced rerolls on to wound rolls but for what you got, the price tag was egregious at 55 points!
They seem really excellent in small units, kept a bit back and then hitting flanks and stuff when everything else commits to combat
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If I understood it correctly, you can only have a unit of black orcs if you also have a black orc boss?
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Thatās correct. And vice versa.
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I cannot help but wonder if fireglaives are a better choice compared to blunderbusses? Neither one seems to shoot very hard, but at least one is useful in combat.
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