Magic attacks don’t equate a magic weapon, no.
Magic weapons are the items you buy from that category, as well as dwarf runed weapons. Stuff like darkforged weapons and the other special weapons don’t count as magic weapons either.
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Further corroborated by the FAQ for runic weapons:
Q: Can a Royal Champion in a unit of Hammerers put weapon runes on their great hammer?
A: No. Weapon runes can only be inscribed upon a hand weapon or great weapon and, whilst a great hammer is similar to a great weapon, it is not a great weapon. A great hammer is a unique type of weapon with its own profile and rules.
It doesn’t say “A Great Hammer already is a magic weapon”. So yeah, Great Hammers, Swords of Hoeth, Darkforged Weapons etc. all are not affected my Sorcerous Miasma.
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Y’all seen this 4th place list from the recent Forgotten North GT?
Chaos Dwarfs by Damien Bradbury:
++ Characters [870 pts] ++
Sorcerer Prophet [445 pts]Darkforged weapon Heavy armour 1x Blood of Hashut Level 4 Wizard General Lammasu [Sorcerous Exhalation] Lore Familiar Armour of Meteoric Iron Mantle of Stone Elementalism
Sorcerer Prophet [425 pts] Hand weapon Heavy armour Level 4 Wizard Lammasu [Mace tail] Ogre Blade Talisman of Protection Dark Magic
++ Core Units [500 pts] ++
30 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [107 pts]Hand weapons Shortbow Boss (champion)Standard bearer Musician
30 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [107 pts]Hand weapons Shortbow Boss (champion)Standard bearer Musician
29 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [99 pts]Hand weapons Shortbows Boss (champion)Standard bearer
10 Infernal Guard [187 pts] Fireglaives Heavy armour Deathmask (champion)Standard bearer [Overseer’s Sigil]
++ Special Units [435 pts] ++
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [150 pts] Demolition Rockets Infernal Incendiaries Hand weapons Heavy armour Hellbound
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [150 pts] Demolition Rockets Infernal Incendiaries Hand weapons Heavy armour Hellbound
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts] Bolt thrower Hand weapons Light armour
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts] Bolt thrower Hand weapons Light armour
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts] Bolt thrower Hand weapons Light armour
++ Rare Units [195 pts] ++
Dreadquake Mortar [195 pts] Dreadquake Mortar Hand weapons Heavy armour Hellbound
I’m impressed, this looks like a very streamlined list. Really leans into the overseer’s sigil and double lammasu! Daemonology is usually my first choice but Elementalism & Dark magic do seem like good choices for this gunline-type build. Other interesting choices that have me questioning my assumptions are Hellbound on the Deathshriekers which seems like a pretty good idea but no ogre loader for the DM which I’m not so sure about. What do you guys think?
Also, check out the winning list with the 90x Night Goblin deathstar. Yikes!
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Hmmmm, can’t say I’m overly impressed, to be honest. I mean getting fourth place obviously prooves me wrong, but still.
- yeah Dreadquake without Ogre Loader is a bad choice. 33% risk of not being able to shoot next turn? Don’t like it.
- three Hellbound upgrades are worth 90pts. He could have just taken a lvl1 Daemonsmith for those points to babysit the three war machines. 3 Hellbounds gives you three re-rolls (albeit in one single turn), while a Daemonsmith gives you six. And another spell.
- Overseer’s sigil only makes sense if the hobgoblins stay with 18" of the general. But it puts the IG at risk of panic test. Personally I’m not a fan. At least also take a BSB then
- The Ogre blade Sorc on Lammasu is decent in combat but not top tier. Risky
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Found a picture of the army on the table. It’s one of the few armies at the event that wasn’t fully painted, and barely painted at that. For shame! 
I gotta agree with @Jasko on this… I wouldn’t field an army like this myself. It’s an all eggs in one basket list, it seems. It has the 1-3 turns of massed shooting, with a bunch of re-rolls, and if it takes down enough points and offensive capability from the opponent, then it’s a success
Looking at the score cards, he got 3 close wins, a significant loss, and a sizeable win in the last round. This is kind of to be expected, I’d say, with this list. Three successes with the massed shooting, taking out some big things, but then kind of fading out and running avoidance and points denial for the rest, a game where it didn’t pan out, and a game where the enemy had so little left, or was so outmaneuvered, that they could be broken.
I wouldn’t field this list, but it’s a viable tournament list for sure - leaning into a specific gimmick to overwhelm the lists that can’t handle it, and hoping for favourable matchups, that’s how you either win or lose by a wide margin.
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An all flying demon army there?
The bolt throwers behind your units? I assume you cant shoot until the units move out of the way?
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You can shoot at units with Large Target, that’s it. But yeah, we’ll spotted. Weird deployment against that army.
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I’m thinking maybe they had like dual GUO’s or something, and they’re already shot off the board. Besides that, the bolt throwers, positioned as they are, refuse charges from the front, and, it seems, prevent the hobos from giving ground, which is a pretty boss tactic to promote tar pitting.
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Fair point!
All great points, thank you!
Overseer’s without BSB seems dangerous. Def bit of a shame and doesn’t make much sense that the dwarfs should lose their contempt just because the hobgobs are cowering a bit more under the banner.
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Lol, nice find. It appears that some of the hobgobs in the back ranks have been straight-up vaporized. That demon army looks pretty awesome.
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Bull-father forgive me, for I have erred greatly! 
Take a look at this rule from the steam tank:
"If a natural 1 is rolled on either of the dice when the Steam Tank makes a Steam Power roll or a Charge roll, the pressure has reached dangerous levels and, if not quickly released, will cause irreparable damage.
However, if a natural 1 is rolled on both of the dice, the pressure is too great to be released
safely. The Steam Tank loses a single Wound and halts immediately. It cannot move again
for the remainder of this turn"
However, if a natural 1 is rolled on both of the dice
I always assumed this meant both the dice for the charge roll, but that’s not what we’re talking about here!! It’s the charge and the steam power dice 
We can do both! The Skullcracker is viable! Eureka!
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Well, that may be the wording for the Steam Tank, but not for the Iron Daemon 
This is how it is written for us:
An Iron Daemon cannot march. Instead, you may roll a D6 and add its result to the model’s Movement characteristic. However, if a natural 1 is rolled when making this roll, something has gone wrong deep within the infernal machine, rendering it immobile. The Iron Daemon halts immediately and cannot move again for the remainder of this turn.
Charging is not even mentioned. (which is good, since that means our charges have no risk of failing on a 1)
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Damnit, back to square 1. The Steam Tank’s extra movement involves rolling 2 dice, so it’s not as straightforward as that 
So if the steam power rolls snake eyes, there’s a major malfunction, and the same on the charge move. So we’re back to having to decide whether these increases in movement are a bonus that we can get:
- Instead of marching
- Instead of having the ability to march
I looked up how the Steam Tank worked in 8th, to try to inform my interpretation. When choosing to fire both the steam cannon and the steam gun (which it can per default in TOW), it could move 3d6 inches. That’s a maximum of 18", avg. 10", whereas its absolute maximum now is 10", avg. 7".
The Iron Daemon in 8th, likewise, had a maximum charge distance of 18", avg. 12", when engaging the steam boilers, which it was allowed to do. Our max charge distance is 11", avg. 8" in OW.
I know our rules are sort of different, but with the way the wording is near identical, I feel that a ruling for the steam tank would definitely apply to ours as well.
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For me the argument is settled after
An Iron Daemon cannot march. Instead […]
I see that as case closed. Everything after “instead” relates to the first sentence (just by manner of how adverbs work), and that speaks only of marching. Charging isn’t marching, neither for the Iron Daemon nor for any other unit in the game.
And even for the Steam Tank is see no basis to add the Steam Power roll to it’s charge distance. There too you have the “cannot march → instead” construct. In the Temperamental rule it again speaks of the Steam Power or Charge roll.
And you are very convincing, since you are mostly right on these calls!
You are correct, but I don’t think it’s unequivocal like that. I know we’ve had this discussion before, but I’ll just put it out there again: The wording can very well be interpreted as the machine having an ability in lieau of the ability to march, and there is no mention that it cannot be used before issuing a charge or that it counts as a march or anything like that. Simply put, it’s a roll that adds to the movement characteristic.
Furthermore, what I haven’t checked up on before, it seems that both machines in the past have been able to combine these things, in one way or another (the steam tank being random move in the past made it a bit different, but on average it seems to be the case).
I honestly think I’ll start playing it like this, unless someone makes a fuss about it. With all the cheese and the WAAC going on, I deserve a ruling in my favour, especially when the arguments for it are valid. Going on to explain how the sentence refers to normal movement in the remaining moves sub-phase is more extrapolating than taking it at face value.
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Good episode!
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It sure was! I never gave the other two Hashut spells a second look, now I may just give Curse of Hashut a go if it makes sense to do so. Also, some guy with my exact name posed a question, look:
The guy answering is the guy in the video. Seeing as how he’s pretty much dissected our grand army list to its atomic components, I’ll concede and take back my intention to juice up my iron daemon before it charges.
Besides that, interesting black orc setup, I’ll definitely take notes.
Triple Taurus list, what?
Deathshriekers - as others mentioned, the relatively low strength on the demolition rounds is a major drawback compared to a regular old stone thrower, but I may give it another chance.
Infernal guard with no command and fireglaives? I’m too fond of my exploding unit champion, but having the fireglaives there for them to have something to do while they slog up the board, or for use as stand and shoot before grabbing axe and board? I’ll give it a go.
What else?
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Hi all,
I wanted to get folks view on a few rules questions:
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Can a Hobgoblin Khan join a unit of Infernal Guard? I don’t see anywhere in the Levies rule or Regular Infantry that would stop them from doing so, but it feels like I might be missing something here.
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Can a unit of three BC Renders with Great Weapons have its Ba’hal take a charmed/enchanted shield? Rules as written the answer is yes, but rules as intended probably no. Wanted to get thoughts on this.
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Now suppose the answer to question (2) is YES, if this same unit is joined by Taur’ruk does the unit leverage the armor save properties of Motley Crew? If the Taur’ruk has a shield so he has a 3+ armor save. Now in this unit of 4 monstrous cavalry we have a 5+, 5+, 4+, and 3+ armor save. When the unit is shot at or hit by a magic missile, how is this handled? Are the hits just randomized and that is how the armor value choice is settled?
Thanks, Erik
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Yes. I know it feels weird, but that really is what Loner is for. A Hobgoblin Khan can even be your General!
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RAW for sure, RAI maybe/probably? Why though? I guess for (3)?
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No, Motley Crew is it’s own special rule, not a state. Champions are hit last, so you just use the worse Armour Save of the unit. If a Taur’ruk joins, you have to allocate hits as normal and the Taur’ruk and Bull Centaurs will have different armour saves, the unit using the bad one until only the champion is left.
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